8* Starters - Builds and Synergy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Eleiryn, Apr 13, 2016.

  1. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Priya already has a fantastic overview of the 8* starters, their various systems, and what they do, which you can find here. If you're not sure what they do and alladat, definitely read it.

    I personally don't give a fuck about resonance or monos, they're both shit, and a few new GEs have come out that make for some really interesting competition, so I'm going to focus on that - teambuilding and buff shuffling has always been more interesting to me than just giving a list of what units do and explaining every bit of it. Again - if you want the basics, Priya gotchu covered, but around these parts we're in theorycrafting territory.

    As a note - their hitcounts/drop checks on SBB/UBB etc, as well as their BBs in general, are mediocre/unimportant enough that I generally ignored them unless it was particularly relevant.

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    Stripperella Selena
    10 hits 40 DC
    LS: 6BC Fill Each Turn (ALL) / Heal Each Turn (ALL) / 30% HP 100% ATK (ALL) / 30% HP 50% ATK (Water)
    SBB: 560% Water (AOE) / 7BC Fill 3Turns / 20% Chance Heal 20-30% DMG when ATKed (ALL) 3Turns / 35% BC+ 35% HC+ (ALL) 3Turns / Gradual Heal (ALL) 3Turns
    UBB: 1500% Water (AOE) / 100% Chance Heal 30-50% DMG when ATKed (ALL) 3Turns / Normal HitCount +300% (100% DMG) (ALL) 3Turns / Gradual Heal FULL (ALL) 3Turns

    Skills
    • 20SP: 2-3 BC when hit (self)
    • 20SP: 25% chance of 10% damage taken as healing (self)
    • 10SP: +5% BC/HC drop (self)
    • 50SP: Ailment immunity (self)
    • 40SP: Increase of +1000 to BB/SBB gradual heal value, total of 5000-5500 on both
    • 50SP: Add +50% Water elemental damage buff to BB/SBB
    • 60SP: Add ailment and debuff cleanse to BB/SBB
    • 60SP: Add +1 turn duration to all UBB buffs

    Elly's Notes
    • DC is mediocre without Lexida so she's kinda meh in CA, but still an arena GODDESS, doubly so with hard immunity from SP
    • As with most starters, LS is garbage, don't use it outside of like, arena monowater
    • SBB actually does a LOT of shit, all of it useful and most of it fairly rare - easy to fit into most teams
    • UBB is OK but nothing really special, kinda mediocre honestly, would've hoped for better

    SP Builds
    Selena has a nice spread of 40/50/60 SP skills to keep things spicy, but unfortunately she's almost completely locked into the 50SP immunity option for arena use, unless you want to burn an immunity elgif on her (ex. FG 3mil service reward). It's important to note that Elgifs DO NOT work in CA, so if you plan on using her in CA... yea. Still, the existence of that alternative means that we can at least talk about some of her other options!

    • All of the 10/20SP options are shit
    • The 40sp, +1000 HoT one is easy to fit in, works with all of her 50/60SP options so it's a pretty safe second choice and is useful vs super DoTs
    • 50SP immunity, as discussed above, is very strong - frees up sphere slots.
    • 50SP water element buff is... VERY limited in usage, I'd never get it
    • 60SP ailment cleanse is decent, and works well if you have an immunity buffer without cleanse (ex. water mermaid from next batch, Paris BB, etc)
    • 60SP +1 UBB duration is pretty shit, normal attack stuff either kills the enemy in 1-2 turns or not, and the other buffs suck to the point it's not worth the sp

    Overall I think that her safest general-use setup is just to buy the 50SP hard immunity. You can stop there, honestly, Selena doesn't really rely on anything else from SP to function and gets very little from most of them. If you want to keep going, though, the 40SP HoT buff is the only valuable/useful remaining buff. That combo optimize her for arena while still leaving her perfectly usable/strong for other areas of the game and very self-sufficient on top of that. Totally negating Beiorg/Shusui's insane DoTs is pretty funny.

    If you plan on getting immunity from an elgif instead, you could definitely rock a 60/40 cleanse+HoT combo to synergize with water mermaid for general usage. FG 3mil/HR46 elgifs and Cosmic Dust/Impiety Orb subspheres are your main options here, just be aware that none of them work in CA (not that you'd use her there anyways). This is a perfectly viable build and I'm not gonna say it's BAD per se, just, idk, it really depends on how you want to get immunity, elgif or sphere or SP.

    Frankly I don't really see any other good builds for her, at least that I would literally ever use, so I'm gonna call it for now.

    Teambuilding
    While she is definitely typecast as an arena goddess (and she is), Selena actually has a fair amount of usability elsewhere in the game - her hitcount/DC are mediocre, but combining top tier BCHC buffs, the most broke-ass HoT in the game, decent BC regen, and the very rare heal-when-hit buff, she offers a pretty wide but subtle array of useful background buffs that can definitely help out more than you think - until Juno-Seto 8* hits I'd go so far as to say that she is now THE default HoT option, at least in the absence of Zeruiah, and generally a very high-utility unit that is easy to fit into many teams.

    She noted above, she does clash with Zeruiah - while neither of them is completely defined by their BCHC, it's a huge chunk of their value, so it's not a great idea to use 'em together. For the non-Zeruiah folks though she got some pretty nice value going. There are surprisingly few other legit BCHC buffers for general use, so there isn't actually much else clash to talk about there.

    In terms of HoT clash, there also aint that many competitors to bovver her, and fewer still who come close to equaling her. Juno's prospective 8* is the only REAL competitor, the rest are either just generally bad (eat a dick, Quartz) or just got their shit kicked in by Ensa/Eze (sup Elza).

    Given the fairly unassuming nature of her buffs, Selena is just generally easy to slot into a lot of squads and offers a LOT of value. She can even switch to normal attack super BC gen in trials in between SBBs, which is pretty cool. If I wasn't married to Zeruiah I'd use her a TON.

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    Vargito the Burninator
    13 hits / 52 DC
    LS: 6BC Fill Each Turn (ALL) / 120% BB ATK%+ (ALL) / 30% HP 100% ATK (ALL) / 30% HP 50% ATK (Fire)
    SBB: 560% Fire (AOE) / 150% ATK+ (ALL) 3Turns / 300% BB ATK%+ (ALL) 3Turns / 30% Chance -50% Enemy ATK 1Turns / 75% Element Weakness DMG+ (fire) (ALL) 3Turns
    UBB: 1500% Fire (AOE) / 250% ATK+ (ALL) 3Turns / 600% BB ATK%+ (ALL) 3Turns / 100% Chance -80% Enemy ATK 2Turns

    Skills
    • 10SP: +20% atk/rec
    • 10SP: +20% hp/def
    • 20SP: +50% spark damage (self)
    • 20SP: +50% crit damage (self)
    • 50SP: Add a 80% spark damage buff to BB/SBB
    • 50SP: Add a 50% crit damage buff to BB/SBB
    • 50SP: Add +300% BB mod, 100% atk buff to UBB (900%/350% total)
    • 100SP: Add an Angel Idol effect to UBB (80% proc chance, 100% heal)

    Elly's Notes:
    • His LS sucks. No real BC gen, no spark damage, just a decent BB/atk buff that won't actually help much.
    • SBB attack buff is generally useless 'cuz Eze/Atro will already give it. The BB mod and atk down are nice though, as a sub his SBB is good
    • UBB is alright for non-crittable nuke content but nothing really special, there are better 7* pure-damage and crit/spark/bb mod UBBs. I do like the attack down though

    SP Builds
    It's important to note that all his important buffs are multiples of 50, so you basically pick 2 50sp buffs, a 50sp and some 20/10 fillers, or the 100sp one. There's not a lot of fancy shit you can do here.

    That said, the 50SP package of crit/spark damage and HP/DEF is pretty nice if you just want one of his 50SP buffs - sets him up as a very survivable nuker of sorts, which works pretty well with that 3722~4020 atk he's rocking as Lord/Breaker.

    In terms of 50/100 sp buffs;
    • The spark buff is good in theory but absolute garbage in practice, there are SO MANY amazing 90-120% spark buffs nowadays, most notably Elza, Charla, Ensa, and Eze, that there's no reason to waste SP on a shitty one.
    • Crit damage is actually not that bad, especially if you use a crit buffer who doesn't offer crit damage (ex. Randolph, Nyami BB, Hadaron, Orna I guess... Signas is pushing it...). Only really relevant for Randolph/Nyami BB/Hadaron.
    • The UBB damage increase aint bad if you're using him for his UBB, probably the best combo with the 20/20/10 self-buff package
    • The UBB angel idol is interesting and actually outperforms almost all similar UBBs save the dark guy from next batch.

    I'll just be honest here and say that I don't actually like any of his 50SP buffs, they're all incredibly situational, but they aren't unusable.
    • 50sp selfbuff package and 50SP crit damage buff can work well with Randolph in team somewhere
    • 100sp angel idol makes an interesting trial/boss-focused Vargas, who offers damage buffs in a low-offense team and a nuker+survivability UBB to survive non-buffwiping instagibs

    In terms of overall usage, 99% of his value is in his kit already (and it sucks) so it's pretty unrelated to SP buffs. He's a decent arena lead/bruiser for monofire, a very niche sub everywhere else, and that's about it.

    Teambuilding
    So the first big thing to note, the albatross hanging around his neck, the sword of Damocles hanging about his head, the extra spicy taco from Taco Hell that gave him assploding diarrhea, is the fact that Eze and Atro exist. That's gonna come up a lot in this review because it's a core identity issue Vargas faces - the fact that of the two real buffs he gives, one of them is essentially GUARANTEED to exist in your team simply by dint of how common Atro/Eze are.

    The other is that BB mod is on fucking everyone too, most notably Sirius (250%) and the new global exclusive, Ensa-Taya (300%). Given that both of them massively outperform him in utility AND as general-use leads with superior damage LSes, that's probably what REALLY kills Vargas, even more than his mediocre sparking animation or any relatively minor attack buff clashes. If you're already guaranteed to have an attack buff and almost always gonna have a BB mod buff too (from friend Ensa if nothing else), that kinda... kills him. Not to mention the upcoming Kuda (60% crit, 50% crit damage, 140% atk, 200% BB mod) who basically does everything Vargas WISHES he did for FG teams. Not to mention the gargantuan throbbing elephant in the room, Cyrus, whose 400% BB mod buff takes Vargas out back and - nvm this is a family friendly review.

    So yeah, this section is basically... D.O.N.T. Which stands for dooooooon't use Vargas. But seriously, if you want to use him, go for it, just be aware that you're going to have to avoid a lot of common/meta/good units to use him.

    Sry Vargas fans, I love the art too but Alim should be ashamed of themselves for dat design.

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    "Got Wood?" Lance
    10 hits 40 DC
    LS: 30% HP 100% ATK (ALL) / 30% HP 50% ATK (Earth) / Null CRIT (ALL) / 8BC Fill on > 5k DMG Received (ALL)
    SBB: 560% Earth (AOE) / Cure Ails / Null STATS Debuff 1Turns / 2000HP Barrier (earth) / 160% DEF+ (ALL) 3Turns
    UBB: 1500% Earth (AOE) / Reduce DMG (75%) 3Turns / Null STATS Debuff 3Turns / Convert 250% DEF to ATK (ALL) 3Turns

    Skills
    • 10SP: +30% defense (self)
    • 10SP: +60% ailment attack (self)
    • 10SP: Increase 60->80% ailment attack (self, requires previous skill)
    • 20SP: Chance to inflict status ailments when attacked (8% Injury/Sick/Weak, 5% Curse/Paralysis/Poison) (self)
    • 30SP: Crit Chance/Damage Immunity (self)
    • 30SP: Elemental damage Immunity (self)
    • 40SP: Adds +50% Earth elemental damage buff to BB/SBB
    • 50SP: Increases SBB Barrier from 2000 to 3000HP
    • 50SP: Adds a 70% Defense->Attack convert to BB/SBB
    • 50SP: Adds 40% Injury/Sick/Weak, 30% Paralysis/Curse/Poison to BB/SBB/UBB (self)

    Elly's Notes
    • LS is shit for general usage same as the rest, but really good for Colosseum and pretty good for safety in higher end arena
    • SBB is reasonably solid albeit not amazing - synergizes very well with Eze and otherwise just does useful stuff
    • SP abilities (analysis below) REALLY make his SBB shine - don't discount him just 'cuz the basic package is OK at best
    • UBB is actually EXTREMELY strong - 3 turn miti is fairly rare, and an attack convert that strong is ridiculous. You're looking at ~750-1000% attack buff attached to 3 turn miti; fantastic combo for pushing boss breakpoints with significant damage without wasting your mitigator's time.

    SP Builds
    Well that's a hell of a list of actually useful-looking skills compared to the competition, eh? Not EVERYTHING is great (30% def wtf) but most of Lance's SP abilities are quite desirable, and some actually immensely supercharge his viability as a unit.

    • 30% def is shit, 60/80% ailment attack is niche, ailments when attacked is shit, crit immunity is meh when his LS gives it anyways, 50% earth damage sucks
    • Elemental damage immunity is actually kinda interesting, but I'd rather use a sphere/elgif for that given how valuable his 50SP options are
    • Maximizing his barrier is a very viable option, personally I really like it and think it gives him great defensive utility
    • Adding the second best def->atk convert in the game to the guy with a 160% def buff is nothing short of ridiculous - a free 200-250% ish attack buff is nothing to scoff at
    • A fairly high chance of inflicting ailments actually does make for a pretty good chunk of utility when paired with Ailment Attack buffers like water chick in next batch

    Overall, Lance is in the rare but enviable position of actually having more viable choices than he can hope to buy, and there are many viable setups depending on exactly how you want to use him. However, I do think that a couple stand out overall

    • 50/50 barrier+def->atk convert is an amazing general-use hybrid offense-defense setup that can supercharge damage and survivability for your team pretty much everywhere - sure he has some big clashes (upcoming Klyuk barrier/def buff, Ensa-Taya barrier, Juno-Seto atk convert) but who doesn't?
    • 50/50 barrier and BB/SBB/UBB ailment infliction works fucking PERFECTLY with Ensa-Taya; she provides an equivalent def->atk convert already but reaaaaaaaaaally wants someone to shit out ailments for her so she doesn't have to stop spamming her SBB. You do run into some minor clash with Atro, who comes attached to Ensa at the hip, but it's not a big deal (150% vs 160% def buff) and Lance still holds his own pretty well here. Eze+Ensa combos REALLY like this combo as well, since it minimizes Lance's buff clash vs Atro
    • Focusing mostly/entirely on his Colosseum usage suggests the 30SP elemental damage immunity SP option, which unfortunately cuts out his ability to get 2x50% upgrades. Consider adding in the 40SP barrier upgrade (better resilience) and don't stress the rest, the cheapo ones mostly suck and he already has crit immunity from LS.

    Overall I would suggest either the first or second builds; first if you don't have/use Ensa-Taya, the second if you do. Ensa's ubiquity really hurts my favorite Lance build (barrier/convert), but Lance still has a lot of potential value... long as you aren't trying to run Juno+Ensa anyways, in which case he's a flaming turd. Fuck me for summoning both of them, right?

    Teambuilding
    So here's the real dawg talk - Lance got hurt pretty bad by Ensa/Juno's arrival, since each of them takes away part of what made him fairly unique and very versatile. Juno at least is a mediocre lead for most content (sry folks, decent survivability with 0 BC gen/damage isn't that great for general use) so she's not everywhere, but Ensa is/will be absolutely ubiquitous and almost completely shuts down Lance's fantastic convert to the point that it's almost not worth getting, which actually bothers me a lot considering how excited I was for him. Still, losing one SP skill doesn't KILL him and he does offer a lot.

    Obviously Lance doesn't get along very well with Juno in general, but dropping the convert SP ability lets him work fine with Ensa as an ailment buddy for her, so you can autobattle and still reap full benefits of her amazing team ailment attack buff. So it's not the end of the world, just a little annoying.

    Otherwise, Lance actually has very few clashes currently and much like Selena, can fit into a lot of teams - he works very well with Eze-focused teams to combo atk+def buff between them, and he also adds the ACTUAL survivability that Eze teams tend to lack (30-60% HP doesn't do shit by itself) as well as still offering a pretty great offensive buff and the cleanse/debuff immunity that, again, monothunder and general Eze teams tend to struggle with. He does run dickfirst into shitstorm Klyuk in a few weeks, but honestly very few of you fucks are actually going to pull Klyuk and fire boy aint THAT great anyways. Can't wait to see how many angry messages I'm gonna get about that, YOUR GOD IS SHIT AND YOUR WAIFU IS ALSO SHIT BTW. Think of Lance as an adorable cockroach, surviving a million tons of bullshit to stay strong and repopulate the - was that a bad simile? Are 'adorable' and 'cockroach' not a good combo? Real talk tho Lance is fuckin hot.

    Overall I believe that reports of Lance's death have been greatly exaggerated; he does have some more issues thanks to Ensa/Juno than he should have had, but he's still a great unit with good use. And he's still a god tier Colosseum lead, so I mean, he has that at least. Also I just noticed the last 3 paragraphs all start with O. I can't think of another O-starter so I'm gonna end this abrup

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    "Proving once and for all that unicorns can be retarded too" Eze
    2 hits 44 DC
    LS: 100% Chance 2-3BC Fill on Spark (ALL) / 120% Spark DMG+ (ALL) / 30% HP 100% ATK (ALL) / 30% HP 50% ATK (Thunder)
    SBB: 560% Thunder (AOE) / 90% Spark DMG+ (ALL) 3Turns / 20% Chance SPARKcrit (50% DMG+) (ALL) 3Turns / 150% ATK+ (ALL) 3Turns / 75% Element Weakness DMG+ (thunder) (ALL) 3Turns
    UBB: 1500% Thunder (AOE) / 250% Spark DMG+ (ALL) 3Turns / 50% Chance SPARKcrit (50% DMG+) (ALL) 3Turns / 100% Chance Enemy receives 100% Spark DMG+ 1Turns

    Skills
    • 20SP: +20% allstats (self)
    • 10SP: +50% spark damage (self)
    • 10SP: 50->70% spark damage upgrade (self)
    • 10SP: 70-100% spark damage upgrade (self)
    • 10SP: +30% crit damage (self)
    • 10SP: 30->50% crit damage (self)
    • 50SP: 90->120% spark buff on SBB
    • 60SP: 3->4 turn duration on UBB

    Elly's Notes
    • HALLELUJAH FINALLY A NOT SHIT STARTER LS! God tier spark damage, great attack, and HP all in one!
    • SBB is a little less impressive by default, admittedly, but it aint BAD
    • ...Especially not after you use SP to give him the best spark damage buff in the game!
    • UBB is EXTREMELY spark focused, and honestly not really that impressive all things considered, because it ONLY boosts spark, and BF has always been a game of trying to maximize all of your damage multipliers (especially crit/attack/spark) not just one of them - sure 250% is a big number, it doesn't boost atk/crit at all. It does a LOT of spark to the point that it's pretty good despite my negativity, very high damage, but the point is that generally speaking Avant UBB or similar will significantly outperform it in anything crit vulnerable, and one of the 750%+ attack 150%+ spark UBBs, especially those with significant additional advantages (either more attack or extra utility) will match or exceed it as well. Not to mention how fucked you are if you fail to spark everything.
    • Oh yeah and he also has 4100 base attack and 4400 as breaker, so that's a thing.
    • Anima or Breaker are both quite legit on him - Anima for general use/to deal with nonstat sphere, Breaker to maximize FG usage. His survivability is fine as breaker now; MAY eventually falter in future content, no idea, stuff that hard aint out in JP yet.

    SP Builds
    Eze is in a fairly unique position, one he shares to some degree with Selena: certain of his SP skills are so valuable to his role(s) that he doesn't really have any choice in picking them. Worse than Selena, though, pretty much all of his 100SP are stuck in one configuration - you max his self-spark buffs and his team spark buff and... that's consistent across every Eze build ever. The most 'choice' you have is if you want to spend 20SP on 50% crit damage, or 20SP on 20% allstats.

    So uh... let's discuss that choice I guess?

    Essentially it comes down to whether you want to maximize his FG usage (hey, 4400 attack nuker, +50% crit damage, what's not to like?) or his general usage (Batootha doesn't add stats - his ES adds 30% but that'll probably be less impressive down the road when everyone has 20 trillion hp and enemies do 19 trillion damage. I personally am a whore for HP and HATE crit so I'd go for the 20% stats, but real talk, it doesn't matter that much, Eze will do the same thing regardless.

    Teambuilding
    Ahhh finally we come to someone simple! With a LS as good as his, Eze's place is, well, as a lead - a fairly dominant one in fact, as far as BC on spark+spark damage+attack+HP LS go. He completely obliterates Avani, Rhoa, Chrome, Zenia, etc. from the landscape, not that most of those really needed the help to gtfo anyways, and frankly severely damages Charla, Elza, and most other spark buffing subs as well. It's not really an exaggeration to say that Eze singlehandedly outperforms every Alim spark buffer (at least until Rosetta 7*) and most global ones.

    And then there's Ensa.

    Beating his ass like a redheaded stepchild with her superior and more versatile LS (albeit without the BC on spark), offering a competitive spark buff and ENORMOUS additional buffs and almost unrivaled personal damage, Ensa-Taya comes pretty close to doing to Eze what he does to Avani - and that's at 7*. Her 8* will likely be powerful enough to make Eze look like a sad, sick little joke. Worst of all, a decent BC on spark buff in team (Sirius, Lafiel, Sareas, upcoming Rosetta) is generally sufficient to reliably full-refill SBBs each turn even without Eze's LS, or at worst a combination of Energizer Bunny Atro and a good BCHC buffer like Zeruiah/Selena/etc will generally do the same job fine as well. So it's hard to really even make a point for Eze+Ensa when Ensa+Ensa and a good sub can do the same, but with way more damage.

    Of course, there is one teeny weeny thing that some of the more acute among you may have noticed: not everyone has Ensa, and not everyone USES Ensa. So it's not like Eze is suddenly magically shit. Ignoring Ensa's existence, he's still an extremely strong lead, and most of the various JP setups work fine here too, though we're a little behind on legacy units. So stuff like Eze+Avant leads for crittable content, or double Eze/Avant+Eze for FG with Rize subs, all that stuff. And while I don't think it's the best team ever per se, you can still definitely use an Ensa+Eze lead combo with Lance sub to minimize clash; there will be some, but it's not the end of the world to have a 100 and a 120% spark buff clashing, and that way you still get crazy BC gen and damage and survivability from those 3 units and can fill out the rest with whatever. It's a testament to how strong Eze is in a vacuum that even with the overpoweringly dominant Ensa as competition he's still a pretty good co-lead, though his existence as a sub is pretty much gone now.

    Clock is ticking though, 8* Ensa is likely going to reshape the meta entirely, and given how accessible she is as a friend lead - well, we'll see what happens eh?

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    Glorious Waifu Atro
    9 hits 45 DC
    LS: Reduce 25% BB Cost (ALL) / 50% BC Fill+ (ALL) / 30% HP 100% ATK (ALL) / 30% HP 50% ATK (Light)
    SBB: 560% Light (AOE) / 20% OverDrive Fill+ 3Turns / 30% BC Fill+ (ALL) 3Turns / 150% ATK+ 150% DEF+ 150% REC+ (ALL) 3Turns
    UBB: 2000% Light (AOE) / Add Fire,water,earth,thunder,light,dark to ATK (ALL) 3Turns / 300% ATK+ 300% DEF+ 300% REC+ (ALL) 3Turns / 300% Element Weakness DMG+ (ALL Elements) (ALL) 3Turns

    Skills:
    • 30SP: 20% chance for basic attack to do 50% AOE damage (self)
    • 20SP: 2-3 BC when hit (self)
    • 10SP: BC and health regen effects occur at start of turn instead of end (self)(doesn't work in arena)
    • 40SP: Add +20% Ares to BB/SBB (50% Ares total)
    • 40SP: Add 50% Light elemental weakness buff to BB/SBB
    • 50SP: Add ailment/debuff cleanse to BB/SBB
    • 50SP: Add 3-5 BC on hit buff to BB/SBB
    • 10SP: Increase BB/SBB buff to 4-7 BC on hit (requires previous upgrade)
    • 50SP: Add burst heal to BB/SBB (2000-3000 + 100% of target's Rec + 11% of Atro's Rec)

    Elly's Notes:
    • FINALLY THE REAL BEST WAIFU APPEARS
    • Not to be outdone, Atro is also the best husbando
    • LS is actually usable for a starter LS, surprisingly enough - not GREAT but a nice combo of HP/BB manipulation/damage. AMAZING for CA, great for arena, generally usable elsewhere though not necessarily ideal
    • SBB is pretty good at a base level though frankly only the stats part is really impressive
    • GOOD THING HIS SP OPTIONS ARE FUCKING RETARDED!
    • Seriously wtf Alim Atro already probably had the second best SBB and you just let us make it 500x better?
    • This sum EU tier bullshit 'balance', man
    • It is worth noting though that his SBB animation and movespeed are INSANELY fast so he wants to go dead last in raids and stuff - think Edea/Mifune kinda speed almost
    • UBB has an uncommonly high multiplier and a number of kinda-niche but sometimes useful buffs... but real talk you already have elements. It kinda sucks.

    SP Builds
    Not one to be satisfied with merely being best waifu+husbando 2 years running, Atro also takes the cake as by far the most customizable and versatile set of SP skills and builds, with multiple viable setups - probably the only starter I would actually legitimately recommend building two of, more on that later. None of his SP abilities are actually BAD outside of the BC on hit self-buff.

    • AOE basic attacks is a CA/arena gimmick and nothing more, but hey, at least it's a good gimmick. If that shit goes off you pretty much just auto-win.
    • BC/health regen at start of turn is TERRIBLE for general usage and should never be used for your general-purpose Atro, but is fucking amazing for imp parade autobattle repeat farming - more on that in the related build.
    • The extra Ares buff is decent, nothing special/creative but no one ever wanted LESS BC gen, right?
    • Elemental weakness is... eh. Everything hard is immune to it anyways.
    • Ailment cleanse is interesting, and much like Selena/Lance, can lead to synergy with units who have immunity but not cleanse
    • The two-tier BC on hit buff (let's just say 60BC for 4-7 BC on hit) is hit or miss; bad if you plan on using another BC on hit unit, amazing if you don't want to 'waste' a slot on one of the, like, two units who have 5-7 (Lafiel and Allanon).
    • Burst heal is never not good as well, though HONESTLY frankly I think it's generally not that useful unless you lack a HC buff

    Atro's builds vary /wildly/ based on what you actually want out of him, and honestly his SP costs are reasonable to where you can mix and match pretty effectively, but I do think a couple main builds dominate to some degree.

    • Ares+maxed BC on hit is a pretty easy combo - maximizing his BC gen overall to minimize your reliance on other units. Best used in teams with limited BC gen (ex. Ensa-Taya leads) who honestly just kinda don't want to waste slots on dedicated BC gen. Kinda mediocre in Eze lead teams cuz, well, they don't really need the Ares... at all.
    • Heal+cleanse turns Atro into a bit of a cleric - given his massive Rec buff your heal will pretty much full heal people, and the cleanse can let you get away without immunity/with an immunity buffer who doesn't have cleanse. Works very well in Eze teams that don't really care about BCHC buffs, terrible in teams with Zeruiah/Selena who don't give a fuck about extra healing, and kinda mediocre in between.
    • Turn 1 BB Imp parade autorepeat Atro uses the 10SP BC regen at start of turn option, along with 15BC gen from spheres and a 4-5 BC regen elgif (ex. FG 2.5mil reward) and his leader skill to enable turn 1 BB without any need for fujins - frees you up to maximize runs per key. This skill is a complete waste of space and cripples a normal Atro SP wise, so I HIGHLY recommend a secondary Breaker Atro dedicated to imp farming - you don't need any more SP on him than the default 10 for free. You don't even need max imps, I think somewhere around +400-500 attack he'll be able to oneshot everything with BB NP. If you do want to blow some more SP, though, get AOE basic attack and use this Atro as your arena/CA Atro. 40SP total cost for everything you actually need aint bad. If you REALLY want to burn SP, you can always add cleanse or heal for more utility in CA/arena/colosseum, but I wouldn't bother.

    Unfortunately the 60SP cost of max BC on hit does preclude some mix and matching, but 3 super viable builds aint exactly a bad total for this guy. Up to you if you actually want to build all three, but I would suggest going for impbuster Atro and one of the others, the SP costs for impbuster Atro are nonexistent so it's a pretty minor investment outside of the legend stones.

    Teambuilding
    So here's the dealio - BC battery Atro never really took off that hard in JP due to the absolute dominance Eze had of the meta, but here on global, we have BC-starved Ensa-Taya leads as far as the eye can see as well as plenty of other high-cost, low-gen GEs who would really like a buddy who gives them infinite SBB along with a bazillion stat buffs. Atro was good on JP but will likely be absolutely dominant on GL as a primary sub given the fall of Eze; while cleric Atro is still perfectly viable as a Eze buddy, honestly I'd rather rock the Ensa+Eze+Lance combo and just toss Zeruiah in there for healey stuff. Energizer Bunny Atro really shines with more Ensa-focused teams though, especially those with double Ensa or Ensa/Nyami or otherwise low-gen setups.

    He's also a great FG sub for those of us without Sirius (again - amazing Ensa synergy) and just generally useful for raiding, trials, etc for... well, all the reasons listed above. Like honestly, what the fuck do you want me to say, tristat buffers are almost universal today and have been for idk how the fuck many months now, and Atro is just the latest one of those. No shit he's going to be good. Nadore is still great to this day and she's like fucking 8 months old; outclassed, sure, but fucking 10-30% stat difference aint that big of a deal. Atro is just a better Nadore.

    unit_ills_full_60017.png
    "EVEN MY EDGES HAVE EDGES" ORE WA GUNDAM DESU Magress
    12 hits 48 DC
    LS: Null Elemental Weakness (ALL) / 30% HP 100% ATK (ALL) / 30% HP 50% ATK (Dark) / 8BC Fill on > 50k DMG Dealt (ALL)
    SBB: 560% Dark (AOE) / 150% DEF+ (ALL) 3Turns / 75% Element Weakness DMG+ (dark) (ALL) 3Turns / Reduce DMG (10%) on Guard (ALL) 3Turns / 50% Chance Drain 3-6% HP on ATK (ALL) 3Turns
    UBB: 1500% Dark (AOE) / Reduce DMG (100%) 1Turns / 300% DEF+ (ALL) 3Turns / Reduce DMG (30%) on Guard (ALL) 3Turns

    Skills:
    • 10SP: Heals when attacked (25% chance, 5% heal) (self)
    • 10SP: Increases previous to 10% heal, still at 25% chance (self)
    • 10SP: 5% Light element damage reduction
    • 30SP: Immunity to elemental weakness damage
    • 30SP: 50% resistance to spark damage
    • 60SP: Add 1 turn 50% mitigation buff to BB/SBB
    • 20SP: Increases duration of BB/SBB 50% mitigation to 2 turns (requires previous skill)
    • 80SP: Increases duration of UBB 100% mitigation to 2 turns

    Elly's Notes
    • Yada yada LS sucks as usual
    • SBB is also hot shit by default, unreliable healing (which is as bad as no healing), guard mitigation (useless 99% of the time), and dark elemental damage (situational at best).
    • SP buffs to give him BB/SBB mitigation are his ONLY saving grace, giving him 2 turn mitigation on BB/SBB which is pretty cool, albeit still pretty niche
    • UBB is actually impressively shit by default, fucking Paris does the job better than him. The SP option is garbage since it removes his BB/SBB mitigation, so there's no fixing his UBB really.

    SP Builds
    Ok, look, we all know there is exactly one sorta-viable build for Magress: 80SP to get 2 turn mitigation which allows him to FUNCTION AS A FUCKING UNIT, then waste your remaining SP on... whatever, it doesn't really matter, his 10SP options are all garbage. I'm not going to waste my time or yours droning on further here.

    Teambuilding
    Unfortunately, Magress got the short end of the stick in a LOT of ways - while he IS a f2p mitigator, which is nice, his SBB is hot shit outside of it and in general you're better off with pretty much any 7* mitigator with utility. Laberd, Lafiel, water chick from next batch all come to mind very quickly as Alim units; Mikael from Gumi also outperforms him in general usage by a wide margin, as does Gazia.

    The only 'normal' time and place to use Magress is vs content where you are seriously worried about your mitigator being BC drain beyond the possibility of mitigation - Tilith trial (coming soon) is the fucktarded gimmick trial built around Magress much like Zevalhua was in the 7* era, and much like Zevalhua you can do Tilith OK without Magress and in the future we will 100% have better options as well.

    Magress does have one other legitimate use though - Metal Parades. His ES offers 80% def ignore chance; add on a 20%+ def ignore chance sphere or LS, and you have a 100% chance to oneshot every metal unit - great for autobattle repeat. Not that you're likely to need to make 30 runs of a 60 energy dungeon in 30 minutes... but hey, at least it's something.

    If you're f2p and desperate for a mitigator Magress can be useful, but otherwise outside of his stupid gimmick he's an almost unusably bad unit who probably isn't even worth the legend stone to evo. And I don't say that lightly, you guys know I try to put a positive spin on most units even if they're mediocre or at least give them some attention (cough Vargas), but Magress is just... bad. No versatility, no real alternate SP builds, just a stupid gimmick. Fuck you Alim, make him good for once, he's too sexy to be this bad!
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
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  2. kainoa25

    kainoa25 Thanatos

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    I'd send my annoying brainless monkey of a nephew to read this but i'm sure the numbers would scare him off. Good writeup nonetheless.
    "Juno seto is kind of weak"... *sigh* yes my nephew actually said that. /facepalm x999999999
     
  3. Shiratori

    Shiratori Thanatos

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    I'm hyped on trying an all light squad featuring double Atros... 4 more hours!
     
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  4. Reaper

    Reaper Astraeus

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    I'm planning on raising my first 8* Atro with Ares + maxed BC on hit and later on when I get that FG Elgif I'll raise another for imp parade (y). Ensa lead & 8* Atro sub hype!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  5. HeroOfLightPKN

    HeroOfLightPKN Phoebus

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    Another great post from Ely! It's not because I seem to have very similar opinions and vision of the game in general that I'm saying this at all.

    Oh wait yeah it is...

    I believe I will work Atro with raw BC gen, then Selena.

    Rounded with Lance, Vargas, Magress and Eze in that order.

    So glad I have both sisters

    ((Also Magress is going to be used probably exclusively for 1/2 hour blocks of 1/2 energy metal parades which i am precisely the kind of psycho to do.))
     
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  6. LunarEmerald

    LunarEmerald Ruling Star

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    There's a spark cap? I was under the impression, spark was the one damage modifier that had no hard cap.
     
  7. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Have had that called into question - removed from review while I try to find out if that's true or not. Leaning no currently, I just remember reading that a year or two ago and thinking it was true ever since but struggling to find any source for it now.

    Sorry for false alarm if it turns out to be bullshit.
     
  8. Deathless Ausar

    Deathless Ausar Diablo

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    Great work as always, Elly, thanks for the effort!(y)
    Lucky for these starters, I don't have Juno or Ensa or any LE unit actually, so Eze, Lance, Selena, and Atro will be very useful for me. Will raise them all ASAP.

    Until I realize I'll need quite a number of Legend Stones to do that. RIP
     
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  9. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Fortunately I still have 16 or so lying around so I'm not fussed about evoing them all, will do so ASAP when I wake up.

    Not sure quite how much I'll get out of Lance unfortunately cuz Juno+Ensa. Kinda depends on their 8* release date I guess.
     
  10. Deathless Ausar

    Deathless Ausar Diablo

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    I'm afraid I've just seen the tags and now I can't unsee them. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016
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  11. Reaper

    Reaper Astraeus

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    New login screen :).
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Gannicus

    Gannicus Archgod

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    Thanks for all the tips and suggestions!
    ...but I still don't trust my own judgement

    Please tell me EXACTLY what SP options you're gonna give to Selena, Lance, Eze, and Atro for general use, so I can copy you lol

    Will definitely raise a Breaker Atro for imp farming. BB gauge filled at start + autobattle repeat = AMAZING CONVENIENCE :D
     
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  13. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Selena - ailment immunity. Add in HoT upgrade if you want to burn extra SP on her, I may or may not bother.

    Lance - barrier upgrade for sure, then either attack conversion or ailments on BB/SBB/UBB.

    Eze - not actually going to build him probably, but all the spark buffs (self and team) and 20% allstats

    Atro - building at least two, maybe all three builds actually, but definitely energizer bunny atro and imp parade atro (stopping him at 10sp tho, don't care much about arena atro).

    I don't really intend to use any of them save Atro that much so I'm kinda lazy about it, but did farm 10+ dupe starters for SP on them.
     
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  14. Gannicus

    Gannicus Archgod

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    Ok thanks! Without your help, I probably would've chosen different options for all of them lol
     
  15. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    No problem mate. As a rule of thumb though, SP builds generally exist to either strengthen a unit at a primary role they do, or shore up weaknesses - if you pick with an eye to one or the other you'll generally be alright. Never hurts to get second (and third, and fourth...) options though, that 3 gem reset cost is ridiculous.
     
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  16. Joaquin_del_Rey

    Joaquin_del_Rey Suppressor

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    Okay so I was legit feeling so lost with the starters SP routes and having a mini anxiety attack over what to do (I am the kind of person who can spend an hour in the grocery store lost over which brand of cookies to buy), and then like a shining light out of a big gaping anus shaped cave entrance, you came Elly and saved me. Seriously thank you so much for this as it has done what exactly what I wanted someone to do: sat my ass down and told me what is awesome about each starter and what sucks and what builds make them sexy.

    You the number one Brave Frontier bad bitch and my favorite guide writer (as you have always been.) Also loving the insight into Ensa Taya and Juno Seto's omni evos and how they may effect the usage of the starters. This is the kind of perspective I love to get on BF!

    I want to ask though, if it is okay, how do you feel about Sirius' omni potentially overshadowing Atro? I suppose a concrete answer now will have to wait until Friday, but I would love to hear your opinion on this once Sirius ' OE is out. I really wish they didnt clash with the tri stat buffs since I am a huge fan of both units...
     
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  17. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Aha I always look forwards to your posts, partially to stroke my ego, partially 'cuz they tend to have pertinent questions worth bringing up.

    SP can be pretty intimidating - I know when it first came out I wasn't sure what to make of it, but now I've had months of watching JP meta and theorycrafting and seeing new JP units to shake up global meta so I feel a lot more comfortable with it. I think everyone will get there sooner or later, it's mostly a matter of familiarity, but I also suspect that it'll always be a major subject of discussion. Even now there are at least 2 totally viable Atro builds for general use, which is better depends entirely on team composition - so even if you build one and love them, maybe in a month you'll be using a team that synergizes better with the other Atro build... it's kinda nervewracking making decisions that big knowing the costs (3gems) are that high if you decide you don't like it.

    On Sirius - I think it's a given TBH, tristats+competitive BB mod+BC on spark is a fucking retarded combo, he's arguably THE most broken 7* in the game overall (at least until Ensa, and even then it's close). All he needs is another 20-50% on his numbers and he'll crush Atro and potentially even dethrone Ensa, though at the same time, 8* Ensa could come right back. Just depends on numbers. I think it's safe to say that he's going to be pretty god damn strong even if his 8* is just tiny upgrades though, he really doesn't NEED anything more to be ridiculous.

    That said, while Sirius OE is coming out in ~1.5-2ish days on JP, it's probably 4+ months away on global. I'd be VERY surprised if we didn't have a ridiculous 8* global exclusive tristat buffer who outperforms Sirius by then, whether it be a Deimos OE or something new. So realistically, Sirius has no real relevance to the Atro discussion now and for the near future imo, and in fact it's very possible that JP's next 8* batch will contain someone else who outperforms him even before then. Given that we tend to lag on Legacy batches but get RS batches very quickly, it's entirely possible that we'll have both a GE AND an Alim unit who are better than him by the time we get his 8*.

    Not to say that we WILL - just that I wouldn't stress it too much. It's like how everyone was hype for Shida 7*, then we got Zeruiah and then Allanon and STILL haven't gotten him and the hype is just... gone by this point.
     
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  18. Emanresu

    Emanresu Athena

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    Awesome as always. Why would we expect anything less. Some of these guys may have lost their lustre a little but don't forget GQ, trials etc will still exist and in multiple team content these guys are very much top tier when constructing those extra squads. I've been looking forward to Atro a lot, as time passes though I feel like my hype for him/her has gone through the roof.
     
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  19. feilong

    feilong Aether

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    Thanks for this write-up.
    I notice a lot of the SP options are self buffs. Do these stack if I use a tri-stat buffer?
     
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  20. Eleiryn

    Eleiryn QUACK QUACK BOOM Administrator

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    Yep, self-buffs of almost all types do stack with buff BBs nowadays after a few patches ago.

    The only exception is SBB self-spark buffs, and they're a pretty special exception, stuff like Eze's SP options and ES spark buffs stack OK, it's just SBB related self-spark buffs like Gildorf and Tazer that don't stack with normal spark buffs. So it's irrelevant for the starters, but NOT irrelevant for Gildorf, who can't benefit from Eze's amazing spark buff, lowering his relative spark damage advantage.
     
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