Zedus and Andaria review.

Discussion in 'Unit Reviews' started by RainyRai, Sep 23, 2015.

  1. Taikero

    Taikero Apollo

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    I was considering Andaria with Medina for BC gen purposes. Andaria and Libera can work, but....I think Andaria+Medina might have more potential. 17 BC fill per turn for starters.
     
  2. Thanh76

    Thanh76 Khaos

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    no krantz, dion, or quaid sad :(
     
  3. Pulsate

    Pulsate Thanatos

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    You mean Zedus lead + Tridon lead ? Because in that case all you get is 80% bonus spark from Zedus LS and you lose 350BB% and 80% ATK from Zenia's LS/SBB combined
    Andaria gives way less BC/hit than Libera, and she doesnt have the conversion buff (which is pretty relevant especially when you actually use her BB too)
    Idk, I feel like Tridon shouldnt be lead in a well rounded squad if you have more offensive options that still allow you to survive (you can survive without his LS easily and his OPness doesnt go anywhere when he is a sub)
    Ares is already provided by Griff, crit rate/damage too, Quaid's elements are covered by Griff/Libera.
    Actually the only benefit you get from that comp is Andaria's status protection/cleanse) (which can be found anywhere tbh, Edea, Krantz, Melchio...etc...) and the REC part of Tridon's LS which is pretty insignificant without conversion buffs
    The only thing I dont know is if the crit rate you get from Tridon/Zedus LS actually help you bypass crit resistance or if it doesnt matter
     
  4. LunarEmerald

    LunarEmerald Ruling Star

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    Libera provides more damage. Even without her elements helping.
     
  5. Pulsate

    Pulsate Thanatos

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    You mean Zedus lead + Tridon lead ? Because in that case all you get is 80% bonus spark from Zedus LS and you lose 350BB% and 80% ATK from Zenia's LS/SBB combined
    Andaria gives way less BC/hit than Libera, and she doesnt have the conversion buff (which is pretty relevant especially when you actually use her BB too)
    Idk, I feel like Tridon shouldnt be lead in a well rounded squad if you have more offensive options that still allow you to survive (you can survive without his LS easily and his OPness doesnt go anywhere when he is a sub)
    Ares is already provided by Griff, crit rate/damage too, Quaid's elements are covered by Griff/Libera.
    Actually the only benefit you get from that comp is Andaria's status protection/cleanse) (which can be found anywhere tbh, Edea, Krantz, Melchio...etc...) and the REC part of Tridon's LS which is pretty insignificant without conversion buffs
    The only thing I dont know is if the crit rate you get from Tridon/Zedus LS actually help you bypass crit resistance or if it doesnt matter
     
  6. Pulsate

    Pulsate Thanatos

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    You can but it's just better to use Griff lead + Zenia lead + Libera sub than Zedus lead + Andaria sub + Libera sub + any lead in most situations ^^
     
  7. kappacoehn

    kappacoehn Diablo

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    I remembered seeing or doing the math and Zenia's +230% attack on LS is essentially the same damage as Spark 80 - 90 or something like that.

    I could see these kind of line up:
    Zedus Lead
    Ark Friend
    Andaria
    Vernil/Zenia
    Libera
    Aaron I guess?


    Ark Zenia combo for part focusing, Zedus for pure AOE nuking, Aaron provides BC fill, and get coverage from Zedus ATK down and Ark Def increase, and can be handled by Libera anyway(if nothing else Aaron can gtfo into Krantz). Tons of offense and basically complete BC management package.
     
  8. RainyRai

    RainyRai Demeter

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    Uh, why?
    Zedus shall basically offer almost as much dmg as Zenia/Griff combined(you don't want to run the two together either because lack of HP) and Andaria easily makes up for BB support(Libera helps too)

    How is Griff/Zenia/Libera better then Zedus/Andaria/Medina or Rivera/Tridon friend and some other units?
     
  9. Yilun

    Yilun Thanatos

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    Personally, I'll probably look to use Zedus more as a sub in Raid setups. I'm thinking something like:

    Zeldeus, Zenia, Zedus, Michele, Melchio (rainbow squad) with Michele as lead. That gives me 100% attack, 30% HP, and 40% fill rate. Then I can bring along a Tridon friend for 30% BC/HC management or perhaps a Bestie. 30% more HP, 30% more DEF. Melchio's 30% ATK->DEF conversion stacked with Michele's 140% ATK SBB buff and Michele's 100% ATK LS should be more than enough for most content (we will have to see about RC6). I also have good elemental coverage without Quaid.

    The only thing that I need to be careful of is Michele and Zedus crit buff clashing. But her LS, SBB ATK buff and Dark elemental buff is worth it, imo. I'll just swipe in this order -> Michele -> Zedus -> Zenia -> Deus -> Bestie/Tridon -> Melchio. Everything stacked, I should have 240% ATK bonus on SBB spam, Fire, Light, Dark perma buff with Zedus Thunder/Light on SBB and Melchio rainbow damage on SBB. Status cleanse on Melchio should protect me since it negates as well. Deus gives 140% Defense and then 30% of the 240% ATK buff to squad gets converted back and added to that. Bestie 30% Ares should synergize well with Michele 40% on LS. Or Tridon's 30% BC production should synergize well with Michele 40% LS as well. If I use Tridon, it will give me slightly extra defense and vitality with earth shield as well as 30% extra HC production. Not to mention with Zedus as a sub, I'm getting 50% chance to reduce enemy attack by 50% as well each turn.
     
  10. RainyRai

    RainyRai Demeter

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    Zenia only has an 80% ATK buff on LS.. and also Zedus's crit dmg buff beats her out by miles.
    Zenia clash hurts, and
    this team isn't BAD but it's not good imo.
     
  11. Taikero

    Taikero Apollo

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    Considering the damage Zedus offers, if I need to use Andaria + another unit for BC gen purposes, I can afford to lose a little bit of damage from a conversion buff if it means I have more reliability on my SBBs. Especially considering Quaid returns as a completely viable elemental retyper.

    This statement is both misleading and false. Take a second to breathe before making arguments, please.

    ATK buffs are low-damage in general. Libera's conversion buff is a nice-to-have in comparison to Zedus's damage buffs.

    Tridon + (damage lead like Zedus) is equivalent in survival potential to Griff + Rhoa. Zedus alone offers more damage than Griff + Rhoa (elemental retyping aside), so tossing in Quaid to handle elements isn't a big deal. Will or Michele can also be tossed in no problem as needed to handle Light or Dark retyping for an encounter (or just use Krantz as mitigator).

    Andaria has Ares and 7 BC every turn for 3 turns which is more potent than you think. Quaid substitutes for element retyping just fine (and for encounters where you don't need it you can drop him). 20%/40% extra crit chance can be beneficial in pushing through Crit resistance.
     
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  12. LunarEmerald

    LunarEmerald Ruling Star

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    Disagree unless you need fire or water buffs
     
  13. kappacoehn

    kappacoehn Diablo

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    +230 total on BB mod with 80 ATK and 150 Mod whoops


    Then teach me your team building ways senpai. I'm a noob that use Griff Lead with Loch Sub for maximum Kappas
     
  14. Taikero

    Taikero Apollo

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    Fire can be handled by Michele anyway without any significant harm done to a Zedus-led team.
     
  15. Phat Kat

    Phat Kat Lantern

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    Ok so who do I need to use as a friend if I'm running zedus? Bestie?
    Does it depend on my other units mainly?
     
  16. RainyRai

    RainyRai Demeter

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    Zedus(leads)
    Andaria
    Quaid
    Krantz
    Rivera
    Tridon friend

    that's not the best tema in global but it's a very solid one. For raids atleast(which is end-game anyways)
     
  17. Pulsate

    Pulsate Thanatos

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    Imo Griff/Zenia is just better than Griff/Rhoa because you dont need the 30% more HP to survive so I compare with a Zenia setup. Zenia also brings an unbelievable UBB to the table (which Zedus also does, let's be real LOL)

    Crit wise :
    Zedus and Griff bring exactly the same buffs
    Zedus/Tridon might help push through crit resistance but in most cases you dont want to use Crit lead (crit sub is fine tho) anyways against crit resit content because the crit resist part is the one which drops materials most of the time

    Spark/other damage buffs wise :
    Zenia has 200% BB mod on SBB and 150% BB mod on LS and 80% ATK from LS and 80% Spark damage from SBB
    Zedus has 80% Spark LS + 80% spark SBB which makes it 160% Spark. That's it.
    Libera brings a decent conversion buff which still increases damage even if it's not the best way to do so (still good when you already have the other buffs)

    I know Spark damage is a great source of damage but BB% mod is nothing to laugh at (Zenia UBB showed us that), I didnt do the math but I think 350% BB% mod + 80% ATK is better than 80% more Spark damage

    All the other buffs we mentionned are covered by both setups, assuming Libera has a much better BC/hit buff but Andaria has a nice 7BC/turn buff which might be comparable (I honestly dont know which one is better in practice for higher Raids but the BC/hit difference between the 2 is really huge)

    If you take into account Tridon's LS for your setup (I use him as a sub in my setup) you get 20% more HP compared to a Griff/Zenia setup (and 10% less if Rhoa), 50% (?) more REC (irrelevant), 10% mitigation and some crit rate (Idk the real value of that tbh, maybe its more relevant than I think)

    In the end the difference between those setups are :
    Zenia/Griff + Tridon sub + Libera sub =
    - 350% BB mod
    - 80% ATK
    - REC -> ATK conversion
    - Much higher BC/hit buff
    - BC fill on Spark LS from Zenia

    Zedus/Tridon lead + Andaria sub + Libera sub =
    - 80% more spark damage
    - 20% more HP/10% mitigation
    - 7BC/turn
    - More Crit rate

    About the BC/hit BB/turn buffs lets assume they are similar (Idk)
    20% more HP (and 10% mitigation) is not so relevant when you basically never die anyways apart from some very bad RNG from time to time in RC5Q10 (which is still there with more HP anyways)
    In the end the real difference is 350% BB mod + 80% ATK + REC conversion + a great BC sustain vs 80% more spark damage + Status protection + bonus crit rate we dont really know it's effectiveness
    We can argue that Zenia BC fill on spark LS isnt needed to spam SBB (tbh idk as I got used to it so i havent played without it for a long time ^^)
    So both setups are pretty similar and it depends on what units you have. I personnally have all of those and will still be using Griff+Zenia as I dont need the added survivability and i already have status protection from Krantz or Edea.
    I feel like the damage buffs I get from Zenia/Griff are slightly better than what Zedus brings to the table but I will try Zedus anyways. His UBB actually makes me think about using him (and a similar setup to yours) because it really looks better than Zenia for multi target nuking.
    In the end the difference is really small lol

    EDIT : Forgot about Zedus ATK down. I guess it makes Zedus setup a bit better defensively (which isnt really needed as you only die very rarely and from RNG anyways) while Zenia/Griff setup is easier to sustain SBB thanks to her LS. Same shit, both setups are still really good.
     
  18. LunarEmerald

    LunarEmerald Ruling Star

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    A big reason to use Zedus is his 50% chance to decrease enemy atk by 50%. Zedus doesn't just offer damage, he offers survivability that the enemy has no way of countering. Nobody is immune to it. Nobody is resistant to it. Nobody can cleanse it off them. Their buff wipes can't stop it. Their leader skill lock can't stop it. 50% atk down effectively means you've crippled their damage for that turn.
     
  19. Pulsate

    Pulsate Thanatos

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    I get that, but do you actually die in Raid ? I mean I only die to Queen Sipla once in a blue moon (about once every 3 raids but Revives are here for that so I never start back from camp anyways) from RNG (mostly when I auto battle with Aurelia/Libera which obviously doesnt work so well LOL)
    I understand defense is great but when you already never die I dont really see the point of going for even more defense (which is also why I dont really use Aurelia anymore) instead of taking every single damage increase you can get ^^
    In the end it doesnt change anything
     
  20. JSlick

    JSlick Gleaming God

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    Did Griff just get outclassed? dammmmmmmnnnn
     

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